[00:00:02]
[1. Call to Order]
I'D LIKE TO CALL THE THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 23RD, 2023 ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT MEETING TO ORDER.HAS ANYONE SIGNED UP TO SPEAK? NO, SIR. NO ONE HAS SIGNED UP TO SPEAK DURING CITIZENS, PERIOD.
SO WE'LL MOVE FORWARD TO THE NEXT ITEM.
[3. Consent Agenda]
THE NEXT ITEM IS THE CONSENT AGENDA.SECTION THREE IS A CONSENT AGENDA.
SECOND HAVE A MOTION BY MS. SPEARS HAVE A SECOND BY MS. BROWN. ALL IN FAVOR.
ANYONE OPPOSED? MOTION CARRIES.
[4. ZBA Reports and Discussion Items]
FOUR ZBA REPORTS AND DISCUSSION ITEMS. NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA ITEM FOUR A, RECEIVE A REPORT AND HOLD A DISCUSSION ON THE ROLES, RULES AND JURISDICTION OF THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.STAFF PRESENTER MATT RIBITZKI DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY COMPLIANCE MANAGER.
WILL DO. YOU MAY REGRET THAT YOU HANDED THE REINS OVER TO ME.
SO BE PREPARED TO BE PUT ASLEEP.
IF YOU HAVE TROUBLE SLEEPING AT NIGHT.
YOU CAN PULL THIS UP ON YOUR COMPUTER AND LISTEN TO IT LATER.
I APPRECIATE EVERYONE BEING HERE TONIGHT.
AND I'M GOING TO USE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT TERMS. I'LL SAY ZBA.
I MAY SAY THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.
IT'S ALL THE SAME THING. WHEN I'M TALKING ABOUT THE BOARD AT ZBA.
I'M ALL TALKING ABOUT THE SAME BOARD HERE.
IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, FEEL FREE TO STOP ME THROUGHOUT THE PRESENTATION.
YOU KNOW, I'VE GOT MY SLIDES AND WE'RE READY TO GO.
BUT ANY TIME YOU HAVE A QUESTION, FEEL FREE TO ASK.
RIGHT. WELL, WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, HERE IS OUR AGENDA FOR TONIGHT.
WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THIS IN ABOUT THREE, MAYBE 4 HOURS.
WE'LL SEE. WE'LL SEE. NO, I'M KIDDING.
OF COURSE. I ACTUALLY DON'T THINK IT'LL TAKE US THIS LONG.
LET ME TELL YOU WHAT IS EBA DOES CAN GET VERY COMPLICATED.
AND A LOT OF CITIES THAT HAVE TROUBLE OF ZBA SHOWING UP.
OBVIOUSLY, ALL OF YOU ALL SHOWED UP HERE TONIGHT.
BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING.
THE ZBA IS AN EXCEPTIONALLY IMPORTANT BOARD UNDER LAW, BUT IT'S ONLY CALLED WHEN NEEDED.
YOU KNOW, IT'S ONLY IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS DO YOU ALL CALL UP.
YOU DON'T HAVE ROUTINE MEETINGS.
IT'S ONLY IF THERE'S A HEARING THAT HAS BEEN SET, AN APPEAL TO THE EPA HAS BEEN FILED.
SO I THINK YOU REALLY SO MUCH FOR SHOWING UP.
IT IS IMPORTANT, EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVEN'T TO LISTEN TO MY BORING PRESENTATION.
REALLY. I HOPE TO ACCOMPLISH THREE THINGS WITH THIS TRAINING.
FIRST, I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND WHAT A ZBA IS AND WHY IT DOES WHAT IT DOES.
SECOND, I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE BASIC ZBA WHAT IS BASIC ZBA CASE WOULD LOOK LIKE WHEN YOU HAVE A REAL HEARING IN FRONT OF HERE, NOT THIS BORING PRESENTATION. WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? WHAT CAN YOU EXPECT? CAN'T GET DOWN REALLY IN THE NITTY GRITTY BECAUSE SO OFTEN THEY'RE SO FACT SPECIFIC.
BUT I THINK WE CAN LOOK GENERALLY WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT A HEARING TO LOOK LIKE.
WHAT TYPE OF CASES DOES A ZBA LOOK LIKE? WHAT DOES THE ANATOMY OF A HEARING IN FRONT OF THE ZBA LOOK LIKE? SO I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT LAST KIND OF THIRD GOAL FOR TONIGHT'S PRESENTATIONS IS I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE DO'S AND DON'TS OF BEING A ZBA MEMBER.
THERE ARE SOME BASIC THINGS TO KEEP IN MIND.
ANY TIME SOME OF THESE SOME OF THOSE THINGS ARE BASIC THINGS.
[00:05:04]
SO THOSE ARE THE THREE THINGS I HOPE WE LEARN TONIGHT AND THEN AND HOPING, DO WE ACCOMPLISH THAT? HERE'S OUR AGENDA. WE'LL GO WE'LL GO THROUGH PRACTICAL EXPECTATIONS.WHAT IS THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT? WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE CREATION OF THE ZBA, THE ZBA AUTHORITY AND TYPES OF CASES WHO CAN APPEAL TO THE ZBA MEETING PROCEDURES, THE APPEALS FROM THE ZBA DECISION.
THAT MEANS WORD IS, IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T AGREE WITH YOUR DECISION, WHERE DOES THAT GO? WHO APPEALS FROM Y'ALLS DECISION? AND THEN WE'LL TALK A LITTLE ABOUT THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.
SO HERE ARE THE FIRST TWO AGENDA ITEMS PRACTICAL CONSIDERATIONS.
AND WHAT IS THE ZBA? FIRST PRACTICAL CONSIDERATIONS.
LET'S SET THE TONE OF A ZBA HEARING.
WHILE IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE CASE, GENERALLY SPEAKING, EXPECT A ZBA HEARING TO BE FAIRLY TENSE.
LOTS OF TIMES PEOPLE ARE IN FRONT OF THE ZBA BECAUSE THINGS AREN'T GOING ACCORDING TO PLAN.
SOMETIMES THE APPLICANT CAN'T USE THEIR PROPERTY THE WAY THEY THINK THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO.
OTHER TIMES THERE MAY BE A DEVELOPMENT DEAL THAT POTENTIALLY IS HANGING IN THE BALANCE.
SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, IT CAN BE TENSE.
YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR ESSENTIALLY FROM THE CITY.
YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT, WHICH IS GENERALLY THE PROPERTY OWNER.
AND YOU'RE ALSO GOING TO HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC.
THERE'S ACTUALLY A THIRD OPTION THAT THESE ARE ALL PUBLIC HEARINGS IN FRONT OF YOU UPSTAIRS, THAT THERE'S A PART WHEN YOU HAVE YOUR HEARINGS, THAT THE PUBLIC IS NOTICED AND THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO IT.
SO THERE CAN BE A LOT OF TENSION IN THE ROOM WHEN YOU WALK IN.
THE CRIMINAL TRIAL HAVE THAT EXPECTATION WHEN IT HAPPENS THAT THINGS COULD BE TENSE.
THAT DOESN'T MEAN SOMETHING'S GONE WRONG.
THAT'S THE NATURE OF THE BUSINESS OF THE ZBA.
AND I SAY APPLY THE CITY'S ORDINANCES AS WRITTEN.
RIGHT? DON'T LET THE EMOTION, DON'T LET THE ATTENTION UNSETTLE YOU.
RIGHT. THAT'S THAT'S TO EXPECT.
JUST LET THE LAW AND THE FACTS GUIDE YOU.
I DIDN'T MEAN THAT TO BE AS DARK.
ALL RIGHT, SO WHAT IS THE ZBA? THE ZBA IS A SORT OF SAFETY VALVE TO PREVENT THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL OR UNLAWFUL APPLICATION OF CITY ORDINANCES.
AGAIN, IT'S A QUASI JUDICIAL BODY.
THAT'S TWO TIMES I'VE SAID THAT ALREADY.
AND THE ZBA ACTS AS THE FACT FINDER.
ESSENTIALLY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO PRESENT THEIR CASE TO YOU.
YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR ALL THE EVIDENCE AND THEN MAKE A DECISION BY APPLYING THE LAW.
THERE'S NO APPEAL TO YOU, TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
YOU ARE THE LAST BOARD IN THIS CITY THAT RULES ON THIS.
YOU'RE THE LAST ORGANIZATION, THE LAST ORGAN OF THE CITY THAT MAKES A DETERMINATION ON THIS.
ANY APPEAL FROM ALL THIS TAKING? IT'S TAKEN TO A DISTRICT COURT.
SO THERE'S NO APPEAL TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
AGAIN, IT'S VERY FACT SPECIFIC, AND WE'LL COVER THAT LATER ON.
IF YOU UNDERSTAND DUE PROCESS, EVERYBODY KIND OF HAS THEIR DAY IN COURT.
THAT'S ESSENTIALLY YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD.
THAT'S WHAT DUE PROCESS IS ALL ABOUT.
NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT. NO, YOU CAN'T GET THAT PERMIT.
NO, YOU CAN'T GET THAT PERMIT.
TONY CAN TELL YOU ALL ABOUT IT.
24 SEVEN. AND THERE ARE TIMES WHERE.
ACTUALLY, I THINK WE NEED SOMEBODY ELSE TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT THE ZBA IS.
SOME BUREAUCRATIC INTERPRETATION OF WHAT THE LAW SAYS.
[00:10:03]
LET'S TALK ABOUT WHERE THE ZBA COMES FROM HERE.WE'RE GOING TO TALKING ABOUT WHO CREATED THE ZBA, WHO PUT TOGETHER THIS WACKY OUTFIT ? THE ZBA INITIALLY COMES FROM STATE LAW.
CHAPTER 211 OF THE TEXAS LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE LIST OUT MANY THINGS, AND ONE OF THE THINGS IT DOES IS IT TALKS ABOUT THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND IT GIVES US THE BARE BONES OF WHAT THE ZBA IS.
CHAPTER 211 DOESN'T NECESSARILY REQUIRE THAT CITIES FORM A ZBA, BUT GENERALLY, IF YOU HAVE A ZONING ORDINANCE, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THAT THE ZBA IS GOING TO BE PUT IN PLACE. IF YOU LOOK AT THEIR IN THE KIND OF THE SUB BULLET POINTS SETS AUTHORITY TO THE BOARD THAT'S SECTION TWO 11.009. THE NEXT SECTION IN THE CODE TO 11.010 THAT SETS THE PROCEDURE FOR APPEAL TO THE BOARD.
HOW DOES IT LOOK? IT PUT SOME BASIC FRAMEWORK ABOUT WHAT THAT'S HOW DO PEOPLE GET IN FRONT OF YOU.
THERE'S SOME STATE LAW REQUIREMENTS.
SECTION TWO 1110 SETS UP THE BASIC PROCESS OF HOW SOMEBODY FILES AN APPEAL, YOU KNOW, EXCUSE ME TO 11 SETS OF PARAMETERS, HOW SOMEONE CAN FILE AN APPEAL.
THE DECISION OF THIS BOARD, WE'LL GO INTO GO INTO A LITTLE MORE DETAIL.
BUT ESSENTIALLY THERE ARE CERTAIN RULES THAT ARE PUT INTO PLACE IN STATE LAW.
THAT'S WHAT I WANT YOU TO COME AWAY WITH.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO REQUIRE STATE LAW SAYS YOU DON'T HAVE TO SET ONE UP.
BUT IF YOU DO SET ONE UP, YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY CERTAIN RULES.
AND MOST OF THAT'S TAKEN CARE OF ON A STAFF PERSPECTIVE.
THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN SOMEBODY FILES SAYS, I WANT TO APPEAR IN FRONT OF THE ZBA, THERE'S A CERTAIN TIME LIMIT IN CHAPTER 211 THAT WE HAVE TO GET THAT APPLICANT IN FRONT OF YOU ALL.
WE HAVE 60 DAYS TO DO THAT, THAT THAT HAS TO BE HEARD AND CITY STAFF PROCESSES THAT END.
BUT THAT'S ALWAYS GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES.
THERE'S OTHER CODES OR OTHER SECTION REQUIREMENTS THAT TALKS ABOUT CERTAIN DECISIONS.
HOW MANY OF YOU ALL HAVE TO BE IN FAVOR OF SOMETHING IN ORDER FOR IT TO MAKE IT HAPPEN? IT'S NOT TYPICALLY IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS.
JUST A SIMPLE MAJORITY HAS TO BE A SUPERMAJORITY.
THEY'RE PUT TOGETHER BY STATE LAW.
AND THEN THOSE BONES ARE KIND OF THAT'S KIND OF A WACKY SLIDE.
NOW THAT'S IN PRESENTATION MODE, BUT.
THE MEAT IS PUT TOGETHER THROUGH THE CITY'S ORDINANCES AND HOME RULE CHARTER.
WHILE STATE LAW DOESN'T REQUIRE US TO HAVE A ZBA OUR CHARTER.
DOES YOUR HOME RULE CHARTERS ESSENTIALLY LIKE YOUR CITY CONSTITUTION? AND IT'S PASSED BY THE VOTERS.
AND THEN YOU GO TO SECTION 11 OF APPENDIX B THAT YOU'RE ZONING ORDINANCE.
IT'S A MASSIVE ORDINANCE, AND THEN IT TALKS ABOUT THE BOARD ITSELF.
FOR RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE FIVE MEMBERS AND FOUR ALTERNATES FOR JUST, WHAT, TWO MORE? TWO MORE MONTHS. ONE MORE MONTH.
YES, I GUESS JUST ONE MORE MONTH.
THE ZBA MEMBERS, AS YOU ALL KNOW, ARE APPOINTED BY CITY COUNCIL.
YOU'LL SERVE 33 YEAR TERMS. THE ZBA MUST HAVE AT LEAST FOUR MEMBERS TO HEAR A CASE.
AND REGARDING AN APRIL 1ST OR STARTING ON APRIL 1ST, THAT NUMBER WILL INCREASE TO SEVEN.
AGAIN, IT'S A SUPERMAJORITY FOR THE ZBA.
WHICH IS WHY ALTERNATES ARE SO IMPORTANT.
BUT THIS BOARD IS ONE OF THEM.
AND SINCE YOUR QUORUM REQUIREMENTS ARE SO HIGH, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE ALTERNATES.
THAT'S WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT YOU ALL SHOW UP TO.
WE HAVE TO HAVE THOSE THRESHOLDS.
ALL RIGHT. NEXT ON THE AGENDA IS TO TALK ABOUT THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CASES THE VA HEARS.
THIS IS REALLY YOU CAN LOOK AT IT AND YOU CAN TALK ABOUT THE TYPE OF CASES THAT APPEAR BEFORE YOU.
[00:15:04]
SO I CALL IT ZBA CASES.I THINK FROM SITTING IN YOUR CHAIRS THAT MAKES MORE SENSE TO THE TYPE OF CASES THAT COME BEFORE YOU.
BUT REALLY, WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO IT LEGALLY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE AUTHORITY THAT THIS BOARD HAS.
SO THERE ARE FOUR DIFFERENT TYPES OF CASES THAT ZBA CAN HEAR UNDER OUR ZONING ORDINANCE.
ONE IS THE APPEALS OF THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR DETERMINATIONS.
THE SECOND IS VARIANCES FROM THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
THIRD IS SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
AND THEN ANOTHER ONE IS REGARDING THE LAST ONE REGARDING NON CONFORMING USE.
WE'RE GOING TO GO THROUGH EACH ONE OF THESE AND A LITTLE MORE DETAIL.
SO LET'S TALK ABOUT APPEALS FROM THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR.
AGAIN, THOSE DETERMINATIONS DON'T HAVE TO BE TAKEN AT FACE VALUE.
IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T AGREE WITH IT, THEY CAN APPEAL IT TO TO THIS BOARD.
AN EXAMPLE OF THIS SITUATION WOULD BE IF A PERMIT WAS DENIED.
THE APPLICANT THINKS THAT THAT DENIAL WAS IN ERROR AND SHOULD BE APPROVED.
THAT PERMIT WAS PROPERLY DENIED IN THIS CASE.
IN A CASE LIKE THIS, THERE IS NO BURDEN OF PROOF.
YOU'LL SEE THERE ARE CERTAIN BURDENS OF PROOF.
THAT MEANS A BURDEN OF PROOF MEANS WHO HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVE THE CASE? WHO BEARS THAT BURDEN? TO LET THE EVIDENCE TO CONVINCE YOU, TO LET THE EVIDENCE SHOW THAT WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS CORRECT.
IN THIS SITUATION, THERE'S NO BURDEN OF PROOF.
NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT VARIANTS.
SO THAT'S A REALLY BUSY SLIDE THERE.
AGAIN, VARIANCES ARE PROBABLY THE MOST COMMON TYPE OF ZBA APPEALS, A VARIANCE VARIANCES WHEN SOMEONE NEEDS A SLIGHT CHANGE TO A RULE IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE BECAUSE OF SOME CONDITION OF THEIR PROPERTY.
AN EXAMPLE OF A VARIANCE WOULD BE ASKING FOR A CHANGE TO THE SETBACK REQUIREMENT IN OUR ORDINANCE.
BE BETTER IF I ASKED TONY WHAT THE SETBACK REQUIREMENTS HE'D NO MORE NOT WOULD.
BUT I THINK THERE ARE CERTAIN SITUATIONS WHERE YOUR SETBACK REQUIREMENT IS FIVE FEET.
THAT MEANS YOU CAN'T BUILD WITHIN FIVE FEET OF THE PROPERTY LINE.
YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE KNOW BUILDING ON BUILDING.
THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME SIDE AREA THERE.
BUT THERE'S SOMEBODY THAT SPOT A ZONING ORDINANCE.
THERE COULD BE SOMEBODY THAT SAYS, I'VE GOT A SPECIAL CONDITION ON MY PROPERTY BECAUSE OF THE SLOPE, BECAUSE OF WHAT'S OVER HERE, BECAUSE THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES, THERE'S SOME UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE THAT I DIDN'T CREATE MYSELF.
THAT MEANS I CAN'T DO FIVE FEET, BUT I CAN DO FOUR FEET.
AND THEY CAN FILE FOR A VARIANCE.
NOW, IF YOU LOOK ON THAT SLIDE, YOU APPLY THIS IS A STANDARD THAT YOU APPLY WHEN YOU'RE GRANTING A VARIANCE AND YOU CAN SEE IT'S SUPER LONG AND INTIMIDATING. AND IF SOMEBODY WAS GOOD AT CREATING PRESENTATIONS, THEY'D NEVER PUT THIS MUCH TEXT ON ONE SLIDE.
THIS HAPPENS TO BE THE STANDARD.
THE APPLICANT IN THIS CASE BEARS THE BURDEN OF PROOF.
SOMEBODY SEEKING A VARIANCE BEARS THE BURDEN TO PROVE THAT THEY MEET ALL OF THESE ELEMENTS.
IF THE VARIANCE CHECKS ALL THE BOXES, THEN THE ZBA CAN GRANT THE VARIANCE UNDER THE ORDINANCE.
IF IT DOESN'T MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS LISTED ON THE SLIDE.
AND THE ZBA REALLY CAN'T OR SHOULDN'T GRANT THE VARIANCE.
YOU CAN TELL BY READING THROUGH THERE.
IF YOU'RE KIND OF JUST LOOKING OVER THE ELEMENTS, THE REQUIREMENTS, THE STANDARDS ARE SIGNIFICANT, BUT THE VARIANCE PROCESS IS SO VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THE WAY I'VE ALWAYS LOOKED AT IT IS THE CITY IS A BIG CITY.
WE'VE GOT A TENTACLE GOING DOWN 35.
I GOT ANOTHER TENTACLE OFF CHISOLM TRAIL PARKWAY.
[00:20:01]
WHEN YOU'RE COMING UP WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE, WE'RE COMING UP WITH SITUATIONS THAT FIT NEATLY WITHIN A BOX.AND THAT'S REALLY EASY TO DO ON PAPER, RIGHT? IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT IT BE DONE FOR THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND GENERAL WELFARE OF THE CITY.
BUT IT'S REALLY EASY TO CREATE ON PAPER AND SAY, MAN, LOOK, THIS IS PERFECT, LOOK AT THIS THING.
BUT THEN YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO APPLY IT TO THE LAND ITSELF, TO THE PROPERTY ITSELF.
AND NO, NO, TWO PIECES OF PROPERTY ARE EVER ALIKE.
AND, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY THAT'S WHY WE HAVE VARIANCES.
IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE THIS PROCESS BECAUSE THERE ARE TIMES WHERE THERE CAN BE YOU CAN HAVE A GREAT A VERY UNJUST RESULT IN A STRICT APPLICATION OF A ZONING ORDINANCE TO A PIECE OF PROPERTY.
THAT'S NOT YOUR AVERAGE BEAR, THAT'S NOT YOUR STANDARD PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT HAS SUCH UNIQUE CHARACTERISTICS THAT THAT WEREN'T CREATED BY THE PROPERTY OWNER, THAT THEY NEED SOME RELIEF. THEY NEED JUST A LITTLE CHANGE IN ORDER TO SATISFY AND REALLY GET AT THE HEART AND FULFILL THE SPIRIT AND FULFILL THE PURPOSE OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
SEE. I COULD HAVE JUST READ THE SLIDE, RIGHT? I MEAN. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE THIRD TYPE.
AND THIS ONE SOUNDS A LOT LIKE A VARIANCE, BUT IT'S REALLY NOT A SPECIAL EXCEPTION.
THESE IT'S KIND OF RELATED, BUT IT'S VERY DIFFERENT.
YOU JUST CAN'T HAVE THEM ANYWHERE, ANYWHERE AND EVERYWHERE.
IF THEY WERE ANYWHERE IN EVERYWHERE, THEY WOULD, YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD SINK THE ZONING DISTRICT.
BUT IN A LITTLE BIT IT WOULD BE OK.
THAT'S WHAT ESSENTIALLY A SPECIAL EXCEPTION IS.
IT'S HARD TO EXPLAIN THESE THINGS.
SO LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
AND THEY'RE YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAD A TON OF THOSE JUST EVERYWHERE, IT WOULD BE LIKE AN EYESORE LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO LAND ON THE MOON OR SOMETHING AND THAT MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATE AND WHATEVER THE ZONING DISTRICT IS.
AND YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT YOU ALL ARE THERE TO DETERMINE THAT.
IS IT OKAY IN THIS IN THIS LITTLE BIT? IS THIS SPECIAL EXCEPTION HERE? WOULD IT WORK HERE? AND YOU ARE GIVEN A LOT OF LEEWAY IN DETERMINING THAT.
ALL RIGHT. THE LAST TYPE OF CASE THAT YOU ALL COULD HEAR, THE LAST KIND OF CASE THAT YOU ALL HAVE AUTHORITY OVER IS NON CONFORMING USES AND THE ZBA PLAYS A ROLE IN NON CONFORMING USES.
YOU CAN SEE THE SLIDE THERE. ZBA MAY PERMIT THE RECONSTRUCTION EXTENSION ENLARGEMENT OF THE BUILDING OCCUPIED BY NON CONFORMING USE ON THE LOT OF TRACK OCCUPIED BY THE BUILDING AND THE ADDITION OF OFF STREET PARKING OR OFF STREET LOADING TO A NON CONFORMING USE.
I DON'T THINK IT DID ANY BODY ANY FAVORS BY ME READING THAT OUT LOUD.
WHAT THAT REALLY MEANS. THE NON CONFORMING USE IS SOMETHING THAT BASED ON THE ZONING DISTRICT AS IT CURRENTLY SITS TODAY, THAT USE WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED, BUT IT IS ALLOWED BECAUSE IT IS EXISTED.
IT EXISTED BEFORE THE ZONING DISTRICT WAS PUT IN PLACE.
A CONFORMING USE WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT'S ALLOWED BY THAT ZONING DISTRICT WHICH IT FINDS ITSELF.
LET'S SAY YOU, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO MAKE SOMETHING.
DON'T LAUGH AT ME, TONY, BUT I'VE CUT MY HEAD.
LET'S SAY YOU THERE'S BEEN A PICKLE FACTORY.
YOU KNOW, IN THIS OLD FARM FIELD.
THERE USED TO BE NOTHING AROUND THIS PICKLE FACTORY.
YOU JUST HAVE THIS PICKLE FACTORY HERE.
BUT AS TIME HAS GONE ON AND YOU HAVE ALL THESE DIFFERENT USES, ALL THESE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT COME ACROSS AND COME, COME REALLY CLOSE, AND THEY'VE BUILT ALL AROUND THIS PICKLE FACTORY. AND GENERALLY SPEAKING, YOU KNOW, YOU GET AN ANNEX AND IT'S REALLY ZONED RESIDENTIAL.
BUT THAT PICKLE FACTORY'S BEEN THERE FOREVER.
IT'S BEEN THERE BEFORE THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
AND SO IT'S ALWAYS BEEN ALLOWED AND EVERYONE KIND OF UNDERSTANDS THAT.
YEAH, IT WAS THERE BEFORE THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
PEOPLE CAME AROUND AT FIRST AND SO THAT NON CONFORMING USE WOULD BE ALLOWED.
BUT WHAT GETS TRICKY IS AS TIME GOES ON, THAT BUSINESS DOESN'T STAY THE SAME.
THE PICKLE FACTORY DOESN'T JUST EXIST IN A VACUUM.
AND THE WAY IT WAS IN 1950S, THE WAYS IN 1970, 1990 AND 2010 AND 2030.
[00:25:03]
HOW DOES THAT NON CONFORMING USE LOOK? THEY MAY NEED TO TEAR THIS DOWN OR REBUILD THIS.YOU CAN GET IN REALLY WEIRD SITUATIONS.
WHAT I'M SAYING IS WHEN YOU ACTUALLY HEAR THE FACTS OF IT, OF A NON CONFORMING USE.
CLEAR AS MUD. EVERYBODY'S STILL AWAKE.
ALL RIGHT. LET'S TALK ABOUT MEETING PROCEDURES.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE NEXT ON THE AGENDA.
SO FIRST, LET'S TALK ABOUT WHO CAN FILE A CASE IN FRONT OF THE ZBA.
AND THIS IS A LITTLE BIT OF AN OVERSIMPLIFICATION.
YOU REMEMBER WE HAD FOUR CASES.
THIS IS TRUE OF OF MOST OF THE CASES, NOT ALL.
SOME OF THE SOME OF THE CASES JUST HAVE TWO PEOPLE THAT CAN TWO OUT OF THESE FOUR THAT CAN APPLY.
BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHO CAN APPEAL TO THE ZBA, IT'S THESE FOUR PEOPLE.
IT'S THE PERSON THAT FILED THE APPLICATION THAT IS SUBJECT TO THE APPEAL.
THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY THAT IS SUBJECT TO APPEAL.
THEY DON'T GET THE ZONING THEY WANT.
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BUY IT. RIGHT.
DOES THE CITY CAN APPEAL TO THE ZBA? AND THEN THERE'S ANY PERSON AGGRIEVED BY THE DECISION AND IS THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY WITHIN 200 FEET OF THE PROPERTY, THAT'S SUBJECT TO THE APPEAL.
THAT'S NOT TRUE OF EVERY CASE.
THAT'S TRUE WITHIN A VARIANCE.
SO REMEMBER I TOLD YOU ABOUT CHAPTER 211.
IT GIVES US ALL THIS LITTLE STUFF.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY DO IS THEY GIVE A NOTICE.
WHEN SOMEBODY FILES FOR A VARIANCE, THEY HAVE TO NOTIFY THESE OTHER PROPERTY OWNERS.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT PICKLE FACTORY EVERYWHERE.
WE'RE GOING TO PUT THAT NEXT IN SOME PLACE.
AND NOBODY LIKES IT. THOSE THE PEOPLE, THE SURROUNDING PROPERTY OWNERS IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS AND CERTAIN CASES CAN FILE THAT APPEAL TO THE DISTRICT COURT OR EXCUSE ME, CAN FOLLOW THAT APPEAL TO THE ZBA.
SO PRACTICALLY, WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE? OH, THAT SLIDE'S REALLY BUTCHERED.
I THINK THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH MY FONT HERE, BECAUSE WHEN I.
WHEN I PUT IT IN NON PRESENTATION MODE, YOU CAN.
YOU CAN TELL DIDN'T GO THROUGH THIS.
I ALWAYS LOOK AT IT NOTE MODE.
IT'S FINE, BUT I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT.
PRACTICALLY, HOW DO THESE PEOPLE FILE AND APPEAL TO ZBA? WELL, A PERSON FILES AN APPLICATION THAT'S RECEIVED AND PROCESSED BY CITY STAFF.
THERE'S A SPECIFIC AMOUNT OF TIME THAT HAS TO OCCUR.
THE ZBA MUST HEAR THE PILL WITHIN 60 DAYS.
THAT'S NOT BEEN DONE TO MY KNOWLEDGE, WITH THIS BOARD.
YOU ALL ARE GIVEN THAT SAME ABILITY IN OUR ORDINANCES.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S BEEN DONE THOUGH.
WHEN YOU WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT HEARINGS, THE CHAIR OR POTENTIALLY THE VICE CHAIR WHO WOULD SERVE IN THE CHAIR'S PLACE AND HIS ABSENCE TO ADMINISTER OATH, COMPEL ATTENDANCE, HAS THE SAME SUBPOENA POWER AS A MUNICIPAL COURT.
THE BOARD RENDERS A DECISION WITHIN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME AFTER THE HEARING.
THIS WILL MAKE SENSE WITH THE NEXT SLIDE.
WELL, HOLD ON TO THAT THOUGHT.
SO IT'LL MAKE IT'LL MAKE SENSE ONCE WE GET TO THE ANATOMY OF THE HEARING.
[00:30:03]
AGAIN, IT'S A QUASI QUASI JUDICIAL BODY.JUST THINGS TO KEEP IN MIND BEFORE WE LOOK AT WHAT AN ANATOMY OF A HEARING LOOKS LIKE, THE ZBA.
AGAIN, YOU'RE YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE FACTS PRESENTED.
YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE A DETERMINATION BASED ON THE FACTS AND THE CITY ZONING ZONING ORDINANCE.
THIS, AGAIN, IT'S LIKE A MINI TRIAL.
REMEMBER, IT'S GOOD TO KEEP IN MIND THAT YOU'RE CREATING A RECORD.
WHAT HAPPENS IN HERE? YOU'RE CREATING A RECORD.
AND THIS RECORD COULD ACTUALLY BE APPEALED TO A COURT OF LAW.
BUT JUST LIKE THE CHAIRS HAS CERTAIN POWERS, MUCH LIKE A JUDGE WOULD.
BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A RECORD BEING CREATED.
RIGHT. DO NOT GO AND TALK TO THE APPLICANT.
DO NOT GO AND TALK TO CITY STAFF ABOUT SPECIFICS.
[INAUDIBLE] CITY STAFF'S GOT TO CONTACT YOU TO LET YOU KNOW A MEETING IS BEING IS OCCURRING RIGHT.
BUT DON'T HAVE A CONVERSATION.
THINK OF YOURSELF AGAIN LIKE A JUDGE WOULD IN A CRIMINAL CASE.
RIGHT? A JUDGE? WHAT HAPPENS? THE RECORD IS WHAT YOU MAKE YOUR DETERMINATION OFF OF.
IN THE RECORD IS WHAT OCCURS AT THE HEARING.
YOU'VE GOT A REAL PROBLEM BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE AT THAT POINT, WE'RE NOT HAVING A REAL DUE PROCESS SYSTEM PER THE OTHER PEOPLE PARTIES TO THE HEARING DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE BASING YOUR DECISION OFF AND HAVE A CHANCE TO RESPOND AND SO VIOLATES THE WHOLE DUE PROCESS PART.
SO THOSE THREE THINGS ARE VERY IMPORTANT.
WHAT HAPPENS HERE? LET THAT BE THE ONLY PLACE THAT YOU GET YOUR FACTS ON THE CASE FROM.
I'VE ALREADY SAID THIS. ZBA HEARINGS FOLLOW A PATTERN.
THERE AREN'T RULES OF EVIDENCE, THOUGH.
THANK GOD YOU CAN HAVE A ATTORNEYS.
THAT'S NEVER FUN. THERE'S NO RULES OF EVIDENCE, SO IT'S A LITTLE MORE ENJOYABLE.
OH, IT'S PROBABLY A BULLET POINT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BACK ON THE TYPES OF CASES.
ZONING ADMINISTRATOR DECISION.
SO HERE'S THE ANATOMY OF A HEARING.
SO KEEPING THE LAST THREE SLIDES IN MIND.
LET'S LOOK AT WHAT YOU ACTUALLY THE HEARING ITSELF.
THE FIRST PART IS DETERMINING WHETHER THE ZBA HAS STANDING.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE THROWN TO THE WOLVES ON THIS.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOUR ATTORNEY IS GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S DONE CORRECTLY IS TO MAKE SURE THE ZBA HAS STANDING, STANDING SINCE HE HAS JURISDICTION, HAS THE AUTHORITY TO HEAR THESE THESE FOUR DIFFERENT TYPES OF CASES AND MAKE SURE THEY FIT WITHIN ALL THE CONFINES, YOU KNOW, THE CITY MEET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS UNDER LAW TO PROPERLY HEAR THE CASE.
WAS NOTICE ISSUED PROPERLY? WAS THE APPEAL TO THIS BOARD TIMELY FILED? I THINK ZONING ADMINISTRATOR DECISIONS HE HAD TEN DAYS WHEN.
TONY, YOU ARE THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR, CORRECT? YEAH. SO TONY ISSUED THESE DECISIONS.
THEY DON'T GET TO SHOW UP IN FRONT OF Y'ALL.
WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THE ZBA HAS STANDING.
OPENING STATEMENTS. AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE A LOT LIKE TRIAL.
YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE OPENING STATEMENTS.
YOU'LL HAVE THE PRESENTATION OF EVIDENCE.
I DIDN'T KNOW OF A BETTER WAY TO PHRASE THAT.
HERE'S WHAT MY PROPERTY LOOKS LIKE.
HERE'S WHY I NEED THAT SETBACK REQUIREMENT TO BE FOUR FEET INSTEAD OF FIVE.
LET ME TELL YOU WHAT I GOT HERE.
AND I DIDN'T DO IT. YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T MAKE THIS SITUATION FOR MYSELF.
LET ME LET ME TELL YOU. AND THEY START MAKING AND THEN THE CITY MAY GET UP.
YOU KNOW, THEY BRING ALL THE WITNESSES THEY WANT.
THE CITY SAYS, OKAY, THANK YOU.
CITY BRINGS ALL THE WITNESSES THEY WANT, YOU KNOW, AND THEN SOMETIMES YOU'LL LET THEM GO AGAIN.
THAT'S TYPICALLY THE WAY IT WORKS.
EACH SIDE THE CHANCE TO BRING REBUTTAL WITNESSES.
BUT EACH SIDE, THAT'S WHAT I TALK ABOUT, PRESENTATION OF EVIDENCE.
THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE THEIR CASE IN CHIEF.
[00:35:01]
EACH SIDE WILL HAVE THE ABILITY TO DIRECT AND CROSS EXAMINE WITNESSES.JUST LIKE IN A TRIAL, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE CLOSING STATEMENTS.
GENERALLY, THE PERSON THAT BEARS THE BURDEN OF PROOF WILL GO LAST.
IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY REQUIRED.
THAT'S GOING TO BE THE PARTIES THEMSELVES TO THE ACTUAL HEARING.
THAT'S THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT.
BUT YOU'LL HAVE YOUR PUBLIC HEARING AND EVERYONE TO SPEAK.
AND OF COURSE, THE ZBA MAY ASK QUESTIONS AT ANY TIME.
OF COURSE, SOMETIMES ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS.
IF THERE'S WITNESSES ON THE STAND AND YOU WANT TO ASK CERTAIN PEOPLE QUESTIONS, THAT'S GREAT.
PROBABLY NOT GREAT TO DO IT DURING OPENING STATEMENTS.
THAT WOULD BE A LITTLE UNUSUAL.
BUT ANY QUESTION ON DETERMINING THE ZBA HAS STANDING, WILL THAT BE DETERMINED BEFORE THE CASE IS SENT TO BEFORE THE HEARING? IT WILL BE, BUT WE'LL STILL BEGIN.
WE'RE CREATING A RECORD RIGHT HERE.
AND SO TO STILL BE STAYED ON THE RECORD, IT'S REALLY SIMPLE.
WE'LL SIMPLY STATE THIS IS THERE MAY BE A CASE NUMBER ASSIGNED.
THIS IS THIS IS CASE NUMBER, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
HE FILED THIS APPEAL ON JANUARY 2ND, 2023.
NOTICE WAS PUBLISHED IN THE NEWSPAPER ON JANUARY 15, 2023.
IT LOOKS LIKE NOTIFICATIONS WERE SENT HERE REGARDING NEIGHBORING PROPERTY OWNERS.
WE HAVE SET THIS HEARING TODAY, WHICH IS WITHIN SIX DAYS.
IT'S GOING TO BE KIND OF A PRE FUNK ATORY REMARKS THAT THAT'S KIND OF WHAT SETS THE STAGE.
THOSE GENERALLY WILL BE PREPARED.
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE REQUIRED TO COME UP WITH THAT ON YOUR OWN.
SO THERE ARE CERTAIN TYPES OF CASES.
AND IT DOES HAPPEN FROM TIME TO TIME THAT DEPENDING ON THE MATTER IN FRONT OF YOU, PARTICULARLY MAYBE APPEAL OF THE ZONING DECISION OF THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR, WHERE YOU'LL NOT HAVE SOMEBODY YOU DON'T HAVE ONE OF THE CITY ATTORNEYS REPRESENT, YOU WON'T BE MYSELF, WON'T BE ALAN TAYLOR, THE CITY ATTORNEY.
THAT'S BECAUSE WE MAY BE CONFLICTED OUT.
TECHNICALLY, THE CITY REMEMBER THE PEOPLE WHO CAN APPEAL THE ZBA FROM THE ZBA IS THE CITY.
WE COULD APPEAL YOUR DECISION.
BUT THERE ARE CASES THAT I KNOW OF WHERE THE ZBA MAKES A DETERMINATION.
AND SO IN THOSE SITUATIONS, ATTORNEYS HAVE ETHICAL RULES.
THEY CAN'T ESSENTIALLY REPRESENT TWO SIDES OF A MATTER.
AND SO IF THE CITY ATTORNEYS REALLY REPRESENTED CITY STAFF ON THIS AND WE DON'T FEEL LIKE WE CAN BE IMPARTIAL AND REPRESENT THE ZBA, SOMETIMES YOU'LL HAVE A THIRD PARTY ATTORNEY COME IN AND GIVE ADVICE TO THE ZBA.
AND THAT'S VERY THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING HAPPENED.
Y'ALL DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.
WHAT THAT IS, IF WE MAKE THAT CALL, ALAN OR MYSELF, ESSENTIALLY LOOKING AT AND SAY, ETHICALLY, IT'S PROBABLY CLEANEST IF WE HAVE ANOTHER ATTORNEY THAT HAS NO DOG AND THE REST OF THE CITY FIGHT, GIVE, GIVE THE ZBA ADVICE ON THIS.
YES. TARRANT COUNTY OR JOHNSON COUNTY? IT PROBABLY DEPENDS WHERE THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED.
OK. SO AGAIN, WE'RE STILL TALKING MEETING PROCEDURES HERE.
SPEAKING OF ATTORNEY, THAT'S THE NEXT BULLET POINT.
THE ZBA MAY MEET WITH ITS ATTORNEY IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.
AND MY GUESS, PRACTICALLY SPEAKING, IS THAT IF YOU DID HAVE A HEARING, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT YOU PROBABLY DO IS RECESS AN EXECUTIVE SESSION AND RECEIVE A BRIEFING FROM THE ATTORNEY, NOT ABOUT THE MATTER.
THAT'S FOR PUBLIC CONSUMPTION.
[00:40:01]
EXECUTIVE SESSION MEANS A PUBLIC MEETING WHERE THE PUBLIC DOESN'T GET TO ATTEND.BUT YOU MEET IN PRIVATE, UNDER UNDER THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, THERE'S VERY FEW TIMES THAT YOU CAN GO BACK AND MEET IN PRIVATE, BUT ADVICE FROM THE ATTORNEY IS ONE OF THEM.
OH, LOOK, THAT'S THE SECOND BULLET POINT.
ZBA MAY HAVE AN ATTORNEY THAT'S DIFFERENT FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY.
AGAIN, THAT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING'S WRONG OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT CAN BE COMMON.
IT'S GOING TO DEPEND MORE ON THE TYPE OF CASE THAT'S IN FRONT OF YOU.
THE ZBA MUST REDUCE ITS DECISION TO WRITING.
THERE'S GENERALLY A FEW PARAGRAPH OR TWO WHEN THE ZBA MAKES A DECISION.
THERE'S KIND OF THIS FINDINGS OF FACT AGAIN, QUASI JUDICIAL.
IT'S GOING TO LOOK KIND OF LIKE A A COURT DECISION.
THE ATTORNEY WILL HELP TAKE CARE OF THAT FOR YOU.
THAT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU'LL DRAFT YOURSELVES.
AGAIN, WE HAVE A GREAT MAJORITY HERE.
STATE LAW REQUIRES 75% FOR MOST THINGS.
AND THEN STARTING APRIL 1ST, SEVEN OUT TO NINE VOTES FOR THE ZBA TO GRANT A LEAVE.
SO RELIEF. SO IT'S A VERY HIGH THRESHOLD.
AND AGAIN, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE RECORD AGAIN, THAT RECORD OF THE ZBA HEARING MUST BE PRESERVED BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT IF THERE IS AN APPEAL FROM THE ZBA DECISION, THAT'S WHAT'S TAKEN TO THE NEXT LEVEL.
THAT. WHAT HAPPENS IF THE DBA DOESN'T HAVE A QUORUM WITHIN THE 60 DAYS REQUIRED TO HEAR THE.
I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T THINK IT NECESSARILY MEANS ONE THING OR THE OTHER.
I THINK AT THAT POINT, MOST LIKELY, THE APPLICANT COULD PROBABLY FILE FOR RELIEF TO THE DISTRICT COURT AND SAY, MAKE THE ZBA SHOW UP, MAKE THE CITY HEAR THIS MATTER.
THEY'RE VIOLATING THEIR OWN ORDINANCES.
WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE THAT PROBLEM. THAT'S WHY I THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR SHOWING UP.
OK APPEALS FROM THE ZBA AND THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.
I THINK THESE ARE THE LAST TWO THINGS IN MY AGENDA.
AGAIN, WE'VE KIND OF TALKED ABOUT THIS ALREADY.
ZBA DECISION MAY BE APPEALED TO A COURT OF RECORD.
GENERALLY, THAT'S GOING TO BE DISTRICT COURT.
THERE'S A HARD DEADLINE OF TEN DAYS.
JUST KIND OF LIKE TONY'S THE APPEAL FROM THE ZONING ADMINISTRATOR.
I THINK IT'S TEN DAYS, THE APPEAL FOR TEN DAYS ON Y'ALLS DECISION.
YOU'VE GOT TO FOLLOW IT UP. HILL VERY, VERY QUICKLY.
THE APPELLATE CHANCE HAS GONE AWAY.
SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.
SO AS JUST LIKE RIGHT NOW, ZBA MEETINGS ARE OPEN TO PUBLIC.
THIS IS A BOARD THAT IS SUBJECT TO OPEN MEETINGS.
I THINK YOU'LL TAKE OPEN MEETINGS AT TRAINING.
SO YOU GET ALL THE I DON'T WANT TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE HERE.
BUT AGAIN, JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE QUASI JUDICIAL, IT'S OPEN.
CBA HAS TO MEET AT DULY CALLED MEETINGS POSTED 72 HOURS IN ADVANCE, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CITY COUNCIL OR BORDER COMMISSION OF THE CITY.
NOT ONLY IS THAT A DUE PROCESS PROBLEM AND YOU WANT TO GET ALL YOUR EVIDENCE FROM THE RECORD, IT'S ACTUALLY A MEETING, A VIOLATION OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, WHICH I'M SURE YOU ALL REMEMBER HAS POTENTIAL CRIMINAL PENALTIES.
AND I'VE GOT THE OTHER BULLET POINTS THERE TELEPHONE, TEXT, EMAILS OR SOCIAL MEDIA.
I MEAN, YOU DON'T HAVE TO MEET AT THE WATER BURGER TOGETHER IN ORDER TO VIOLATE IT.
AND IF YOU CALL EACH OTHER ON THE PHONE, IF THERE'S TEXTS, SOCIAL MEDIA, THERE'S A FAMOUS CASE I CAN'T REMEMBER FAMOUS, BUT A CASE ABOUT. PEOPLE POSTING ON SOCIAL MEDIA, MEMBERS OF A BOARD, AND IT JUST KIND OF GOING IN ORDER AND PEOPLE KEEP POSTING.
AND IF YOU'VE GOT FOUR OR FIVE MEMBERS POSTING ON SOMETHING, AT SOME POINT YOU'VE HAD A DELIBERATION AND THEY'VE MET ABOUT AN ITEM WITHOUT IT BEING PROPERLY CALLED SO EASY TO DO WHEN YOU DON'T THINK ABOUT IT.
SO JUST REMEMBER, DON'T MEET OR DELIBERATE OUTSIDE OF A DULY CALLED MEETING.
[00:45:07]
ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? THE ONLY COMMENT I HAVE WOULD BE OPEN TO DISCUSSION.TO REITERATE, AN EXECUTIVE SESSION CAN BE CALLED AT ANY TIME.
SO LET'S. THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
CAN I ASK THIS QUESTION? OR IS THIS KIND OF WITHIN THE REALM OR WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? I'M KIND OF STUCK.
MR. CHAIR, SIR, RESPECTFULLY, I WOULD REQUEST ADVICE TO THE ATTORNEY THAT WOULD NEED TO BE DONE.
AND EXECUTIVE SESSION DOES REQUIRE A MOTION, A SECOND AND THEN A VOTE.
AND THEN YOU GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION AND THEN YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, MR. ATTORNEY, I GOT A LITTLE CONFUSED BECAUSE IT CAN GET CONFUSING.
THANK YOU. ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
AND I WILL SAY Y'ALL DON'T MEET VERY OFTEN.
AND IN FACT, I CAN'T THINK THE LAST TIME THE ZBA MET 19.
I MEAN, SO BUT WHAT I WOULD ALSO EMPHASIZE IS I KNOW Y'ALL DON'T DO THIS A LOT, BUT DON'T WORRY.
YOU HAVE LIKE MONICA SETTING UP THE RIGHT NOW, IF THERE IS A HEARING, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE AN ATTORNEY HERE TO ADVISE YOU TO TO TALK WITH YOU, TO GUIDE YOU THROUGH THIS PROCESS. YOU'RE NOT EXPECTED TO KNOW EVERYTHING.
YOU'RE NOT EXPECTED TO TO DO EVERYTHING.
YOUR ATTORNEY, CITY STAFF WILL BE THERE TO ASSIST YOU EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.
LET THIS RECORD SPEAK FOR ITSELF.
CAN YOU TAKE NOTES OR DOES THAT BECOME YOU CAN TAKE NOTES.
AND SO NEVER, NEVER SHY AWAY FROM ASKING A QUESTION.
I THINK IF IT'S NOT ME STANDING UP THERE, I WOULD ASK THE ATTORNEY AGAIN, BECAUSE THEY MAY HAVE SOME PREFERENCE OR SOME SCAR TISSUE FROM SOME EVENT THAT I HAVEN'T HAD, YOU KNOW, BUT I THINK THAT'S A VERY APPROPRIATE QUESTION FOR WHOEVER HAS TO BE SITTING UP THERE WITH YOU ALL.
WE'VE ACTUALLY HAD I KNOW, COUNCIL, WE HAVE HAD PUBLIC INFORMATION ACT REQUESTS FOR NOTES THAT COUNCIL HAS TAKEN DURING FOR CERTAIN COUNCIL MEMBERS, THE NOTES THEY'VE TAKEN DURING COUNCIL MEETINGS, SO UNFORTUNATELY, I TRIED TO PUT PAGE NUMBERS ON HERE AND IT DIDN'T WORK, I GUESS BECAUSE..
I'LL CONSIDER SEPARATELY, I THINK THE P&Z ESPECIALLY.
I WOULD GIVE THAT SAME THAT SAME ADVICE COUNCIL.
I THINK IT WOULD BE FOR COUNCIL.
THERE MAY BE EXCEPTIONS TO THAT SITUATION, ESPECIALLY WITH TALKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PETITION THEIR ELECTED OFFICIALS. AND SO YOU DON'T WANT TO SAY ELECTED OFFICIALS NEVER VISIT WITH THAT PERSON, THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND SO WE MAY HAVE TO IT MAY BE A MORE FACT SPECIFIC QUESTION WHEN ANSWERING IT FOR COUNCIL.
BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, I WOULD SAY THOSE ARE ALWAYS GOOD RULES TO FOLLOW BY.
[00:50:03]
HERE'S NOT THE OPEN MEETING, PUBLIC MEETING, IT'S THE SAME THING.I USE THOSE TERMS INTERCHANGEABLE WHEN I SAY REALLY THE BETTER SESSION IS OPEN SESSION AND EXECUTIVE SESSION. THERE'S STILL PUBLIC MEETINGS.
THERE'S STILL OPEN MEETINGS JUST LIKE THIS.
THIS RIGHT HERE IS AN OPEN SESSION.
IF WE WERE TO RECESS AND DO EXECUTIVE SESSION, WE WOULD RECESS UNDER EXECUTIVE SESSION.
IF IT'S SO LONG AS IT'S ON THE AGENDA AND WE'D GO BACK IN.
THE PUBLIC'S NO LONGER ALLOWED TO GO BACK DURING THAT MEETING.
STILL HAS TO BE POSTED 72 HOURS, BUT THE PUBLIC DOES NOT ATTEND ABLE TO ATTEND ON THOSE VERY SPECIFIC ITEMS THAT THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT ALLOWS US TO TALK ABOUT OUTSIDE THE PURVIEW OF THE PUBLIC.
SO THERE WOULD BE BASICALLY JUST MAKE A MOTION.
EVERYONE SAYS, LET'S GO BACK AND AMANDA AND MONICA WILL MAKE SURE THAT THE SECTION GETS READ.
YOU'LL SAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ THE SECTION.
YOU WILL ADJOURN. YOU'LL USUALLY SAY WE'RE GOING TO ADJOURN AN EXECUTIVE SESSION AT 656.
SOMETHING ALONG THAT LINES YOU JUST A SIMPLE MOTION AND ANYBODY CAN MAKE IT.
IF YOU EVER LOOK. THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW.
P AND C DOESN'T HAVE NEAR AS MANY.
AND THE FIRST ONE THAT'S ALWAYS LISTED IS ADVICE FROM LEGAL COUNSEL.
YES, SIR. BUT I CAN TELL YOU, IF WE EVER HAVE A HEARING, IT WILL BE POSTED.
THE BOILERPLATE WILL GO ON THERE.
TO BE A PARTY TO THOSE TO EXECUTIVE SESSION, YOU STILL HAVE TO POST NOTICE TO THE PUBLIC 72 HOURS THAT YOU'RE IN FACT MAY OR YOU ARE GOING TO DO THAT. CLEAR AS MUD, EVERYONE.
WELL, HERE'S HERE'S. HERE'S A GOOD THING.
I KNOW MAYBE I'VE SPOKEN TOO LONG.
WE'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS.
BUT IF YOU JUST HAVE A LEGAL QUESTION AT ANY TIME, ALWAYS FEEL FREE TO CONTACT.
THAT'S WHAT AL AND I ARE HERE FOR.
AND, YOU KNOW, I'M ALWAYS MORE THAN HAPPY TO DO IT.
IT WILL HAPPEN MORE THAN YOU THINK.
AND THAT'S THEY MAY HAVE A, IT MAY NOT BE NEFARIOUS, IT JUST MAY BE STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE.
SAY I'VE GOT A HEARING IN FRONT OF A CITY BOARD, I'M GOING TO GO MEET WITH THE MEMBERS.
AND GENERALLY SPEAKING, THAT'S OK.
I THINK WHAT I WOULD JUST SAY IS, HEY, LISTEN, I APPRECIATE YOU REACHING OUT.
UNFORTUNATELY, I CAN'T VISIT WITH YOU ABOUT THE SPECIFICS.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HEARING AND I HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE RECORD THAT'S CREATED FOR THAT HEARING.
[00:55:02]
HMM. ALL RIGHT.WELL, HOPEFULLY Y'ALL CAN SLEEP TONIGHT.
I KNOW THE ADRENALINE SPIKING.
THANK Y'ALL SERIOUSLY. THANK YOU, SIR.
THANK YOU. THEY'RE ALL HYPED UP LIKE KIDS ON SUGAR.
ITEM FOUR A WAS FOR DISCUSSION ONLY, SO THERE'S NO ACTION REQUIRED.
THE NEXT ITEM NUMBER FIVE ZBA REQUESTS FOR FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS AND REPORTS.
DOES THE BOARD HAVE ANY OTHER REQUESTS FOR FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS OR REPORTS FROM ANY BOARD MEMBERS? NO, NO.
THAT BEING SAID, ITEM NUMBER SIX, THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS FOR THIS COMMITTEE.
CAN I GET A MOTION IN A SECOND TO ADJOURN? MOTION TO ADJOURN. SECOND.
STATE THE TIME WE ARE ADJOURNED AT 7:01.
THANK YOU ALL.
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.